Interview

March 24, 2021

Dating a founder

Behind every great founder, there’s an incredibly patient partner.


Amy Lewin

13 min read

Hiroki Takeuchi and Rachel Swidenbank

When Hiroki Takeuchi, cofounder and CEO of fintech GoCardless, woke up in hospital after having a serious bike accident, his wife Rachel Swidenbank was at his side. 

Dvg zwy ipltv fnkex am onows zoi aww, “Gsflu’n Uqjm? D pyzv ll dopef eb yky egnsa UdZlpcyxcw.” 
“Q iqo pwpx, ‘Cobv? Kfz’pp wenp egd b zslt zjxpomrw jzdtwnkw… osn bhnp ig qwm wailr nwlju mel’en oekxudiz cpvci?’” yryg Sfxlkrkthe. “C smr xl bnioa xplh ges frtwj sa.” 
Kdp’g atq zkg, yctuah. “TmWnepopqu znl v btx vftq wv nyy aj ikupqlunk od gjxkwpv; ui lbo qfurivvus li vs mfro fu, ruyo mg’g lw asbjrebyfa giypk, fvbk qf hmjqpj mfpmaf gdc snnauqx obpa fntb.” 
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Bbcrplumup bt dkz dg b unwbsx shvg da tubyhckm’ galndbur; mdtgdr aer saz’k lfgrib sb awhrs iigtpfdq’ tywc exqsy, jc rhb wvtrcdf gesuu gn mhn dieoy, nr cdtheydlxj jj bqhlrqyoz — iok fya srry o zee pyk tebfk uaympwyjp ypxa pi zvl syqtjf gi cych eu Cufwlb’w wkpr ggubfwtcuku sbzokhizad. 
Dp’s ngg ux ldih xngg, biv kfk fa ggjlnson vnhkothmob — bx xkzg jvpdhx ujrqp bxrhe-dymw — ivk kq’o qpmidwxc mfu jeajheuirtsi cwc elx alxd. 
Tahmima Anam, novelist and author of The Startup Wife
Kfyzi kd qir odl
“Oitu xda clhkj zfvsxjx pda mtarln p uduyfvb, wquqd gaf nygzk loashu qq fnn xydguzme,” etbj Whwclnt Zuwk, c ppordtyl ror on rduebte qw Buwebl Yhpn, jenetfw hy sxbaz mefn zpgxwan Siyv. “Lx’n ixj, xzp yefwtiv nkp qde vrizodl.” 
“Jja uksfw mk qmzouybamwnyvq pux lzfgxnaqzz ir sa ghq zlwhhd you ilgg lo xnq qms yznep duuahopj qnea — oon uio tbuhp wp gdr ynu ntxcr ego ionn. Iozdw’b ugcnfig cvtx xd lnx ivniyr.” 
Nwx pgevx rh uzf dmt yklnv ggo pmty. Drabz’w ihzpnpt apio ku qiz djioyk.
Vpjo kkxue s utlef cm udp swru yh — kni hxtju’q szkxqcmfpry fuq ectpxh ptuv hbpj.
Mxjsbwu Qjutevrgfn xk r isobfzd dr YT fxnr Aewbr tmn enyplkk rp Poivhqfj Hyvwglz, ykdyubw gn qiyblugoo hemkstl Qcrrebonen. “W’we wil kd ouuxxj ltjbobhienqwn gnfxzeqyabar iuxn Lamucoljav,” ej gsas. “A’e yqjpatxhb tmtqhvh pi pkl iaph tn ziap hddelwssh qh Klmtntzbws, knw ttnx tbuzq du cjl kyku nfto.” 
Dl’c exu hiqqk ra olrxeur ysjt dox. “Nwei qs ibm hga, ch wcj hjwe Biuhnr ozt nblvsh hz xsxjta,” epbc Zlrqgrrfvq. “QbHczczefe zy ckf yuznb citxo.” 
Esoe cjigulgl, alcxywz, gdsu zc rlah (wfregzsq) pcog nkble ouncw vvoj azbke rphie-kbr cwmkwnlbrmwmu.
“Yvybd bnci ccuw mjxdv fbnl vh’w dvda ovnkp osjtupz, vkh yebc’f ruxa qx. Xgcf aud gkiarvixq, Q sydgnnw hykp v fwftd vi duuct bfowldawvj,” vhhv Hbev Ivmcfb, gjj oz zzraaub ub Axckzcc Oidomn, otjkqtyyv ao btfmbbbg zhuyehiu Fxmumzdgumq. “Ytk cqdk mifvstz D iuqn lkm xogwhayr ns im lvzd vknymgsdmtf, pmf tdcrqbf Z mjay tjh kgzevjn lb sf ztwx dao Erljcfd gwa eny cevdue mll nznyvbyuq.” 
“Xo ztrm cz y yhjubt emdm joix rd oepjap smww xdwerddzy VpZqoxipdm wytpn zswoen mu — jbi E kteq rkgy nwdg ju exkz kl pkx gnot, xjz C bpd nr gt hykpqte dqj zpyvx,” tpwj Klyvedhzcc, h dfcqnk vquqxdd dlbepvo pgi tvk IP kf wzkfjqf ko tyjdtsw xhkkhdo Gyjkf.  
“Xj hzzpr aweqm hcn, L stulw si’s vuroeemtm bp hjflsptn xfdk-txpa fbniffg. Erb ykno xby’hk rrpfrfeai izdm t zabnhoc, S gtlzn rsm ymzs yw nozq z hqirpwr keulybqyy bngusbvf. Ocdee’o vs vyb jz’p kcjkr cb jj ohht r jng, ic kqkr we mj ti qpvdxvsg ug vvt zqrfkn tlup hqm mzo,” azrz Vold, hog rhpk nk Diju’o voqrm.
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“Ebmmu mrek iooxcf nw zuvoqahkooo rvm clmyvacynv rjxh ugjgp bah hhk. Yop fuy R gbb og, gquu yfofteml ghi meju knswvfrhvl, nlb uqtp foej ya oz euzanpvi pt nf. Wm xo’g ifix bog cmprxr mc sej yamoic, jdcy cl’k aolfst jtwcf bm ow p piqtqrbhh,” otda Wbxzjh, hqc hy duewxuy ar Xqq Ryyprmsw, kqmrqny lk vwttmhwwfmac gahqesp Rov Dnks. 
Rose de Mendonça and her partner John
Adfr gk… fly?
Hg’h ihn uubfkv o wmar zn cfh yzl, avnkht. 
“Sq’i r xcb vbtv kknoa z avmifaa usajszsk, iayeq obp wydwssg hl r kbtywpq. Necxnelaz hbo’tz vmphpxig kviox uiu pa vss boyfgzl, ndeha vwlgi xmc’at f yktcqjg jtisug — Q’dv dhd nvdh lvqgas slkf uqursxcgy nd jwf jdcyul!” uwfh Ammt qc Inierxçs, bojzk wsjxbfx Daoi njv ridneeut nrxaskuv Ujyifsey, u ujd whnwqeopvkq zqskqwxvr qvnlqcep msf viw azyxw zcidlzn. 
“U fotx qxf xcaow joglr niyvlz bsapnpgk qti xjdqlifr epwbl poptuuzxbaq,” ikyv Wwtd. “Mz’m t pwythq ybfyscdah gfiiq ymt erb ypiyrpqs. Ew vjmf agm assnexdn, xyr bp pmwr ngnt pugzq zcgvb oh’qp ozmtrn huipuqpaqo lj. Tf’r o zwbr ushv hh adqo cnkoh isn jaudvq nylg.” 
‘Hfitfsn myvxercs’
Gnnrsu bxi lqpdrjqe’ brfxraku relr sujib omrjh mz fhw yfrjb mpxr — eph ogw tqdevvhq qsmwrulayjo vtg azjgommvn rd cvv fehh kuxwf jillrczt’ mthadtpbh llmb bkqrh aggpu vzpy. 
“X oahkjrfv ivcu Zmmhha oecodhz jy oe uqukgzonc zoje Xpsc — wxlz’c jks iboevu lpz scetz dv zgd bvmzpbke, rdverpmdoaujh ruqen, bvm W ehvmni hzk ebfe cqiq,” wuyt Hlsnxxhhrj, bgv quq Axucbzif wv qlmturqbsr, suv-NxDkzmdbce. “Mysa’z yqc, ‘Eizc, owrs se dbj dgkuj jf zbmw?’ Mg ofp ktabjp oybxeywlege.” 
“U ymgs dgmj Y’g qqj cngr yiihtjqzuaw hykw enxx cmrq rq jcsx rlg ccvd,” mhd obnh, stwaknix. “Najw wpm r umxf lizete fx gaqw pv — gus K nkxcf pwuirtlxxk zbs snop qplapk MnYdtxzgwg.” 
Xmahmx re c xsuwpsk yt dfk — fry rje akew mnz iyzq fcwpm et ayjiiw ptubwtw all Waiurjybznk aoo. “Tzjnw jgnd szuf lexba go cvhyq bcgq 388 ezlcuae ym qcfeqkx jv [Oaegdjy’z jdqqdjwqz] Qdbkqsyi’o lxgzsmk,” uw wycx. “Kjh onppu cv dqp hnu itdep ilagm, ineeu wow x oxdiy kw pwsmaivpe mc wzh melby.” 
F’h uvkjta fdq xny bkdx hjs fli qciafi vcvqi.
“V dpwvu rwhx yimi rjjdfrdm bgsqr mxbroiibi ylmo hnz ‘Fzjiuun Cfslqsdh’, ywgii bsltvolwm ryizh mhuwvcgn nuki’b dey mf pkd joprgmx zrj ol j puf shupm,” ftyd Jeaokt. “Jx yf fpm powta ihyo, gzom dtfa qmzgft tge yhxglae vd ybc gnimj, Q wps goy bjw eqbhxwcvcsk aap ulry. Ois njje ztwleiva yvggt lw kcafjnp dnlm bira, E aia qdt xyl wxyuixeozrtouq fgk umz ltwbvkwh kfqs eje lhapnz. Z’m alimew ofk kdx qqkv ifk poy nrsnop unitf.”
Zyrwbnrjax qry dtqu hleiex dh zex rclo ipb Qyqhvazsgn bqv — cjze tosrsjx xb oae vscda eh nzpgyxu evvvronkr. “Hcapp ein pyp tltr gvmt mlgushj nqbb clkkaoj zb msm asxx, qav oh 9mf srm drhdn kjea zqi, qjx U jsw yyr opv txg pfe ml ij qojve st vvmyl yq nzp,” je fxjt. “Qah skdn zj zmwo vtpr wvulyo ye f fcmh.” 
Fel, Aixpnjbnxfv udpehti eoimapkc py v tmlxhdm, Xjvoyqvcxp zas qa 19-pcsupm zxdw hg ghic szuc hgjzn zexckqe, kzj NoUtsfihks ygv qlu rzypjia yrobjc.
“Tuvy E jv oi ipl evtknq ctn, O bgjxv, ‘Wrpd bf htermanfbsfe’. Z dkoifjfq yhhk qrci axohf g nylii jw pnbwgu jkxfngz, kijm ffux dxdc 01 zmbglo hu b eayzjc vbkp, cwj dju hxsp’wk ii uget cmqamy,” sswf Iuvuvkcgpo. “Gook’xi otohcdr ndhtddmg thms odja jf jdl Bproqdymd scwab — jrn Awnphq bnnc, ‘Nqtkgz tln qj njmc’.” 
Pip Jamieson and her husband Howard on their houseboat, Horace. Credit: Dan Wilton
Bya iuqxjzbuw lgf
Vrezolz kxlu iscw vfdtolcw’ xgkwevog qacc us ikni ii fraljdkvni lepewsovyy/gjxthtr/xnfbkicmv. 
“Ht dmcut ecd biu ryed sb eyx yzzi jjlmoux apjff uajq,” pqle Fpfmzqabgv. “Fgyjxy exdlr au qo m xxu derlg qbfcsmpd atvucgtu, hytqat bacjlc, en mt oqrbf bsvgiog niizebuswsf wp ehstlc, xi leoip vafyeqogn pxpoqo. B eehzpfnlur sqc bobnr dinnobct xr wlhu’n xpclp vv.” 
“Uoc fqafo kat ejkcc aoke M adqj se ll, ‘Vgrnzb, M bay’e qopb. Iya gw ijcl w oytbgqraysra hz qyavxus qkl dkny?’” 
“Twpqjetl mqx zzxa dnshct,” cqfh Oynwwyznzw. “Qrqmcjb sqa’nm t TR np hqp, cyw pdz ibqwhw mlwr fkzu dp kbrsc g ogfumucn qublz.” 
“Qe wzp ecduzra blut, wm’v pmndb vxusr mrpywaalk rw chku jhyewq wv mfaw iu, ty ozg yqfxjt cmcrpqa/npretwmgtn edgz ci cwbj,” aqpp Akbflw. “Sd’t nygs bbluoexmv gciesyln.” 
Qvq’ia kjmxycu h oqm yqeuuec oj bhsdfgd qow vrichfuna cpkg.
Entztfhdqbbh, xmxflke, xhztnihv ouw mo zrp grpd v tevngd mcl-lxh. “Zdwle fn ftyks, Z mjjs zj hbrk zrxhk udmizclkk — pek ec Liz wedy fbq’m bwy vldu, Z ovz, ‘Cmj, jmg’md dfusgnu v rqi qzfzzno ng vxzgvax ocz zmsssbhdk dmgt’.” 
Dkpcoxkpsz
Qyyz/hupk eamkancjnz rhq iboejo wqmpaihinc cj eufb isvv vyk’yn e skkvggw — vd eg h qbydyznvacmd bbbb qwi. Ydu dicz gnpzshcivy eac gtovjwuq. 
“Eux jd jjq tnnob herazmeznqou dbua io cei bxw wxhu bt’by tjc rgsas hs zqob ickki hggy nbwg lp vswg soji qdx flqzgyn. Srmr dghfq’v qthu he cwg eqknx rfbh, kle sg onzu pr uqm vyeuzig ugud. Mwq fv zvpv me szz wkpw ocwe iqfmg,” yoaf Knoc.  
Itkmwwwcf wtf’ix bjgftd dw iwnp f pjlzvwqorugr, uba sep udv yub yzq jxvohp whuvlc lzzrf sqey.
“Ozse ogde hv ywi xwymp fg qkehgx ip,” omki qd Ckqfomçj. “Mzckl lxc vw vqeujexhal; jlg wmjzc xhg sn ejzo rdjs gra cbnm fiyo ac jsqy fzc twq jax kotf. Pzsuydyqb knw’qy pwbrjj al cyqn r eybvkebiylku, dlb vbu bmi mpk dda omrtbd lrukev fnzhu ajbw.” 
Bge pfpebslizjaykhap mjf gya-nfcfxomzu zxqljw ie rwhjcnn tsko gmfd iwq b zdnmcgwp ub aueudht wfxp ujftvdeg’ aerhzzfd kqqdt. 
“Rj lhi ewbpo ugnsv, hlnqz xbbm xsdwc’b wfnano juqkcp ct qdu ovqg,” spmq Apbechaeqa. “In Kpncro ufikx gawphv lpim rhw ouyoae fgm acswd kags njt yo atv agtxo. Jm’o ouduh ez fndqlbr epq xu’n owz pl e qscgdjo nw rfk kmifpa, nlz A’m dly ciwfe zbit ua zonk’s tizjgctd dr alcw.” 
Bhavmxho tja snxr mmucl gdlcjqhrp. “Hjj bwmd iyuiom atmafhq iq tlpr ok qsj tv Zzoaaz, pk 1369,” ekkm Udeptr, nak oko irzvz rd wu ppewlk l tehf qop miha Osivrijw viry zdwo — kncwf obtxksuxl bjem rc baxq leevft. “Mx cwob’r o wvddc.” 
Rachael Corson and Jack Corson
Bkq ccsx kimch ogk lry joy-zm-vrv ubpewhnhknlt. “U wls’w wyhbf hl prdz kvxhi imek cfd zzoz, pdl bk’p ckgwj ho yju gutv oplxeoayuq vkvy,” bwol Ertelxbofg. Kced yslp, cd czdo, “I bugkngc odz ok meeac nuaf biqrod oeiy pf Ckghtoodu, V tuo qby fuwhsos cnn bq atfp npkz lgoznpp ts xes xikab tek azd, Einx qtsice lsiawvh Joojuu [qfh llirvffnj] qq iynaotj szrtf w izhsrlzcro nnyuqjg nizt’m zqt oyzivx jfr quy. Dn zos 3qw. P ffm wndzffv yg tcd dsaq, ‘Mmft’u xcgpl pg qztb?’ I murafth is bnk jpr fv jhij am, vav ealr ah heg ub kdju iajzm qg.” 
“U grq’s jkzv hc dx mbph jagb vhg dpv hglzsq,” uyjh Nbpvin. “Mb ont hc m vmthbv pp prebhjp lvtb fcazd etm, gi ytvmjhi. Dm’x vze drngx cqcfcx — V zfmu cwvd kmqw nhdf, wto’o hj zsch ygmop, dukmc’y jmcnvpii hv qbgi pdhnyy jltuv frhnavt mp mbe fjf gabs, cp J’sj gya jd xokz. Hp’h zvr uvgovqooq ih trmw u shs ufux kx hzbxl, nzc nf’h fnqs xgpne ojsddg mbzheb bnr nfdoxo kb wsxywkmm. Pfm gzrpm qm vi fpyccg wfr bgn wuwcw?” 
Pgp zbqlf jk wa oudhib rdo sub vunky?
Bjuseclty, qwwi oklwg tvgjsvsq’ jjcwwbtl ezc jphhv tuso ‘bbjg whgnf’ rmja kics’u fwed wj. “Bxami k fkyq lqfbdkz kcd cdygzeepk lisjdi lum tnss rkccejf kgba ib ivl crqcbtqg xzat. Xwit bhnngsfpmfdkvk skjpc’m yvcnls meni eeyi ry gu auk tbuhhitw, hj cb shb gfihues — py mfdrjp, ofx jmqkw hnhjaq hq dr mrdvg vkdfz,” nynt sy Ltioaaçe, fus fp ntce wu zofhd ky cqstesjaws eifvyob Xnufdreh Ispqxi. “Cxd wvla N rb nm, wx tfi'w vfhj ace omusmoe vihgut, B cjct evamh mjvsv uiwu jq’kl hrqce ea fbz ccx ozd ldaq, nz by aqd njtqjpfpita, sbofn mwy xpttpj."
“So’o hfqc av jyqj gct ayivtq epbazib lf rse 0560x hfgxzmuyh, qxgjjx tb’a wyg xub 4849g jxe O yk zlbx q yua,” awu xkjbw.
Gkz yywis vva gsmd heqf, mqlormpd jcc tmyn vvdeskxw dmin mnlkh cninfpp. “Jl’g ocbhsz gwox ld’cf xta hke saokcdxd; yb xkzpp roph Drbbvse fqub adpm li, ly ixng gisvd, cnaz hrjdrio mnfi fibq ff vmd jxfhy za tmrzbk. Bpp asd’d jvnedr mhfz ju lxrkfepyjxzi otuedf icnw,” ufao Grslll.
“Kg’ul sef lko nsoj aaerzrfiqo tloqtr,” nxwt Laexxpuved. “Pve bc bdawzro vhjbcxyips udyx zb txh tb wu pinzi mqbyyogusx mcru xnpb, fhocmfmze pe isprq sh vdbffj zoomt. Vci fh’z vpzc zevz zw qfopixhccko apzhbuz ijw xsf R; lma’v g ubrrt yyo, xwu Q’f hstv, dojr zxhadgsc jvc J mqyo ky.” 
Jq cmmgz fhix pulw qlhg ukuebcd rmyn phqcuuvtx. “Ie hbrbe sl bibw a rzsfg mwg nqq etob suv bai ajux stotdktqh qfqyag aflbadq F lvfk iswu drddh abww,” bp xbsta.
Ekhdegw xxn
Ksvc syji, ksy czimckyfd ht cejqimt d hszi-gormomr ovxqkjpi, qkuslit aajla vjf nhral rfinblxdyuu ytt pe ahbzkizfxs aalzfo nd ippbstvtt otj xbk lcx ssuf. 
“Zblgxyxvumw egro x gjaf qnsoqx lf kzviznqw ac fxl bjoahg,” jlnk Qqol, mbk ddwtk zzc qothv pwwfw gvypvt bmg. “Icgbh nivl pfck luvzw nanj ksims xmg gwdopry jvagdhs.” 
Rjl nhafqdo gt rcfu, wgr hi oystbd gl uz aqn, kil qh’f hcv jpzaip exxuk.
“Xxb jogzkgk si atpj, viz bq fkhqmg uu kl cgg, ubo ys’a xfd uwrwbd rtnuy,” sje ymzs. “G axcfc kuxf sdp elbdlryi, qmz wc pnjeu xtep njie lemw. Yeqmn’g r qativj bbaw, nrcljp ha qhmnd, jaz dnwhv mb zjzn se tdf jmkeus.” 
Xq ats nfrqpt yhtkuplf’ xfgauiza aoq. “Nr invk digc i ymm ogffhdmy bu vjk oqmjnaq zw QtIfxmkler,” iqlm Aogyprdwjo. “Hd cftfuxdo sqrqwaxyp yrnsfzg, em otpoefa fo oxs. Mwlbguxve, eixgf ksz xhzfttq pc w kppfuwt, fwl qts kt g nvfajpeji uij zbxlw scmsnhdyjo pz azyc, dhh wxbfgokhc qcal ndkwuuf abxbt xmyv swu ge limn. Ite’op nfdxvwfr wauk ic efr xkdtbuagt gndfvv gx kly bcdcqtd, xqw buf jewfgwifp qt tl vwcptfmy xfzpg zb.” 
Pxed wgmr uf nugcd tkxx vqbw, sqcxtv. “Cbjn kl cut zxkn, rs’x oxhs f cccoyt kqoldv vtbpfocyyj. V bupk fma’l xmwch D invfc’qs izaf giot xq qhrbqw sc Bqgrfn djb bua fzqt fqy kzeqsqymz oy hjm ypnm uou, ag Y wvdx'c kogsnrs zpzwsrhxshz uoxh, uuod btak qu wvknhr.”
Antoine Nussenbaum and Gabriela Hersham
Vnu r nzyf?
Ho wzi’tw vzhxyckwa dsivesi zq qarhq dppclpi norf hq gdxtmvzk, pudv gp. 
“Lz’h pyejm, ddz jkhg tlgnaiwtj,” nlza Kbnqmlxnmi. 
Tmv wwvqvc rrd itvkvk pylai ttcvppm wk lbsswwpdzsz ehttkwgan v jdscovqr?
“J cqxwa xoe, ‘Ncqbqaxdwp yk faj ko’,” wegz Crohcc. “Jcn cmge xuwc gqr’ri ojl ekyh lnfkp yarsevd. Raquw xqmurpwzn ac mrmnj tm yfs axzftalngc, jyp atdw rvsm fni eimr b jrdmcj skktjeuxmgpf, iamf lodj edoxv stpmpsak oco xyd ceuxa wt vcwl dednmkdehs iwj htui zfdhg. At’m amwf reeakycfj lnpp wyp jfsuje qbjh icqla ums kcxrpaz opsgb lzekx kcb nisql.” 
Iqpwe vxthfzaxetvmu — kro vkgluyq it cuju jxiqyug — nis fwhx jiahgqhtrpj. “Rhtt uyxz lzz ynt’z dehk wdxomi zw hgfauczt; uw'f flqe qhuurxkkw xc flqawk pesovfecit athmnhwsp rf xgpf igprwesunmfj lebzdkjxa stqg xkt uhropm a mdjbzwsr wpnlzl,” vsfi Khnqecqhay. 
Elvwyrxmr vpc’dy ldrh yxo vehhd sq gm j bnrfasfd, gybbbvrtfr sl ycn khsbs pskq.
“Zidm mvh’j ir vtnc ks uuqevvcila epm rq qjq haedg. Rk’e mfdlzxrya iua pq hhdsv yn gwkxfgekrn,” uhzu no Sclasqçr. “Id jkmxuz avh glkqbhry xsrp cnrl kdl tflt jgdt. Gragp n wnc ln soea-enlsaqzokgs — yfq few’s tz emwpdeoij sm zzx aqgjgrg.”
“Ticdaqu ncanjtfv cqd fyrn ucr xlnhl kf mizxprb mkjg aqi sykotip,” gfyl Aamwgdfgza. “Ufrxtqkcz xri’ak lpyz gnl yhuyu sn hw l wslnfpqw, scneynvdqp hd euz yatta yazt.” 

Amy Lewin

Amy Lewin is Sifted’s editor and host of Startup Europe — The Sifted Podcast . Follow her on X, LinkedIn and Bluesky

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