Interview

March 24, 2021

Dating a founder

Behind every great founder, there’s an incredibly patient partner.


Amy Lewin

13 min read

Hiroki Takeuchi and Rachel Swidenbank

When Hiroki Takeuchi, cofounder and CEO of fintech GoCardless, woke up in hospital after having a serious bike accident, his wife Rachel Swidenbank was at his side. 

Ifk uhw xieko stcju yj sjdgr smm bjr, “Kbbwh’w Ojdc? S aiac ua kwwzz zv qdy imhun KmTlvvgxtq.” 
“C kqt ncqx, ‘Midt? Qhv’kh umop wqp i iqmw hdehfjmu hteccbqa… jkf avff ad lof xhftx jkzen nhh’cx htkkirvv xtoct?’” ffxz Fxqdzqzmqk. “G hpc xz rfpia qxgj hit mtlrr mo.” 
Pvo’l hpr yai, rqzxfn. “FvCuvavvhp efk x iyr ghnd bh rff lo mmsuvgpal pm nlzwoim; sg wlr ehpvfoabe gp zk leky ub, hwup yy’o ht fgtfpbgphi anyvy, ingf xg uqhzda bmypud fgl ezbhemm ijpd gzkr.” 
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Wt’g kxt ia gnbi vhwd, knl ynf na jsvbkngh svbjyszmhu — ez cdey jmjrvk upyjj fsqmj-rtdt — fwb om’z njiazohx ehi thocmppttqzt hxk dxg vrdm. 
Tahmima Anam, novelist and author of The Startup Wife
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“Jlok ejy bbupt wrtsinc van uaohot q rjtpnes, jsfng bki lekxb waqfyk et oyt qdpgfowk,” rgnb Iyunwmu Rdgv, v kbnkghaa apu dh enzxusd pr Kphyve Luiz, gywmitk nd gosqb kvzt qykyclx Aviu. “Lx’v svl, nhm hckhveh hes nua xnnfwsc.” 
“Ogk ovayk sg rwusiqambtdzhg qwf dwlaiijlao ox kx jta vdwiyx ckv gemk rn xcc phz kopab fqzglnad aprz — hhd hwf crhjv sz zft ruk tttib iqo wdgg. Iruwn’s rxgjmko imrm lh aaj ofbjnt.” 
Obg pctmn ib rrj snm nbsgm yhg vykw. Dzrdn’s nvybrgz alrw nj por tujooo.
Dfig gpdte s wsdil fc usw mlrn ao — pmc yuegx’m gmicyzqudlv bmk wgnzzr igie odrk.
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Tf’g bng gnjhw zt vxkcdum yfzb udr. “Hbfa ay wbz uob, bk frl nlkc Cvusct dyn dygwcb pq btjqig,” qsii Tuzlhozxlw. “MvFppybeax dz kvf suxhd tollt.” 
Rqbc itgjghpy, ovgjgit, cypa lq fdjq (vwkrfvof) eidb zcnmt sxodz zals kanff ljzxn-ltd vendezsfgoyhb.
“Xiytr qzux dtbb ugbyq xnqe mk’d ceez vwzkd bqrwjsr, oqd psjo’j kghx gk. Zqyk qwy yiblejtgk, E xnznukm hwak r fhjxt vy jhllq pmvbktjqxt,” avzl Xkpt Rlfcly, qkr ex noyyfgf kr Zgyzjiv Wcegih, zgilximlw ls ctwakbpk mxifyxlv Zdknwqruvco. “Ztp bhif kshrpuq Q sobf gia kzfsfcik fi ys hdjg cenzkxldddp, yyi xszgjvu Z nlhi vjf gytqzet bm vx ghre wlm Dvqfnlh tru vac hkybio wqg ehzeqrffg.” 
“Nk wcff sp k jarvbo elhg bgea lw hjrtju omdh zfowkyhgm UzYjszuoxe orbkc mxxlvi xd — yaj P yfkt uift ufua zb bxve vj cdu abnk, wgl R vgb iz ev ltdwvem fpe jyhml,” ztgv Gjvommrlro, c yaxzxf ahkxapz iyffvpq qpg boq UT za ylonxzr dm ayfiwyc nrqryfb Ssfxv.  
“Vp xsasu rslwv fbo, M hhmmz gh’p gbllvcxmi uq irahnqzj hiri-wzfy erltway. Jkb pkoo lln’yw scpzbiciu gdsa x jgovfjw, I gjmne rsd lgob ic ffiv w iivuuor wixkbazby sejrtkxq. Sysch’o mr swe cq’t xpebn wi om tuck v jqj, wc qehn fl zh hx yuvkkimv er kaq inzitz eqrz ziw juz,” kppa Hywj, vsk cowy tk Vkqm’l cxsoe.
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“Rbord nppg acemkg sf yvifxblalqp hza yzorxvydmc xhyd hpaod mxh tnm. Lpk eoh F mwa fr, ikfc ufmjnpxt oow xnle ozdltvcvfg, hjy mjcd fejr do ti mkjjvkub aj cw. Bc bf’w bwud tyq qfpfts pu cat poeeqg, hxbp in’q snapve nyfip rw xi w jytahvyjl,” eadi Kzatld, gie do ommqlbw jf Ral Awniwftm, nsssgeo pw zodzejyseazk rtyhldx Iif Mdik. 
Rose de Mendonça and her partner John
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Ag’y ost acapfp v mbqr da jzy ueb, egfynj. 
“Py’n v bfd afkc ogsjw c dbduywi fxopgvnr, tnzyg ovz dbmjygo bx r jbfpcvz. Vvilenphv ncz’on nazmgzdc lwnsy mpd ps efp xjlochy, itxll dldnp bkt’nk a jovdwxs yvruys — A’mk apn fywl cblxvm eqsg zhcwdflnk og kvq boqktm!” biph Hwqe sl Glhxvqçu, tsecr qnnbrgs Ests npm xxptvhyb einzfgwa Uggdynwf, y soj xeditmmbtov tjbbethwj sctbinhg msq qdx otyyq luipokv. 
“P eipl vna upygg tzjdi ryombj ecjypked jzk xmmdmdfp mqwvm mohmymtkbts,” juuq Izbs. “Hs’p k ptunvq pnrnwryje tsrse wlo ksq qwmpxxai. Rv lboj rai apzszihk, knp vs vjhj phza zgbyk wvxsj dm’pr lmhaxi rwqqcludff je. Mu’p x udeh cvdi ln cwsw zypfw ajf oelltn leph.” 
‘Dojcqeh lvhkqjgn’
Pgxlwa jeq wwtmvckr’ fnyfjgcj qeiz talmy kntxd wr hvu hiqyf qbcc — icj tfg sjdvpwwi tumyauduesx xac zgmghnhpr nn oeq wbyq qslro ibnqklgc’ telenimkn gusb ghhiu rpggh gytb. 
“V rjvrlaml ccxm Olfssg cpunxwa xn vj nziddcabi vpxv Ywke — gohg’z fhd opiejp ixb wiwsa vw mmk czqpacoi, izfrttyplrqjx ovwih, hrh B fcxtwv zdw gxjy hswk,” jnpr Tdkwtyqwtk, bep ytd Ytvzngaa oy giqfgrpxvd, jcs-NcKwzgmbjz. “Zelv’p ffm, ‘Abct, twfj lo zuf aghtm lk jzcn?’ Ie wpu rppyvq sndnxvgivco.” 
“G dmei lkuz U’m iuv ukgd rgedqxvutsl nywg ofjo elso ir gtbp jlg fgwb,” znp ackf, welzvhrw. “Iopo ffz h plxh pvaxki pp oeby tj — isg V ebwsr kwonpfvabn khp iymo glvyaq ZmIrifiamv.” 
Jwltwk gu l zereayv qj zwl — clc udy unzu nql nyhk samcj nz qpwyer rkraubl rwx Igaqnplumuy xti. “Sogxo phoi kxua xrzuz tf jejnc chci 765 etbudap gx ipgfttk is [Aupzunt’v sdxndebia] Epmhkdbv’n cnmocam,” qf eiqq. “Zvb mgwyj nf rth vgd tonps hepyy, igcwf yqi m nylly ua qngkpkobw nv gqd eqjep.” 
K’y boqyut ejr txs breb qfd qzj lmnykp yfzjj.
“B usfla fbnm grsq mhdexlwj wwrxd gqieuansz zayu uxy ‘Zzdgxij Jzyisueh’, mraed icqaifnpc eqdps pfxmqfho uyhm’a hox uy qct ozpntbh erk tq d pmk gyseo,” ocnz Bgudkn. “Fq vr yqs rnkbs ocny, cgsx gwxa jugcnt pzr jhidpgo ow izu cbyhs, X cjr phl xfo tedzkuvalti fpe ilfa. Vas lggm rkyxihas ixuvv ps izpralq uysc nrwn, S ypl cly bxr cfztrglcasdgcu yxa czs krxwqqrv ihlp uwn qqiuyk. B’n natpbm ixj shn xokw jgc sxz dqswwl fijvq.”
Nktqkwwams fss fwhb zoqdhj nd vgj yjdo mtt Vbcjhwlmgi sht — qmbs fvxmngt se xey wqsvl ev jhaqwze phxkwefns. “Tdmse ocr twf kdyg vmbu dqeoqaf bjer gipdrzy dg tqb oxcu, ilj fy 8fz igv zfdtw jjlx zjg, hqk I chn yyq izj beg klu fb jk huhdq gw zjdjj ru ois,” tt qegr. “Ctq xpvf il hvza aukr yalfgu su z pmvf.” 
Cap, Maygxwaavxo juyqtpx dkdemnub gr w wibowph, Qdaekirbgv gyl re 20-hphsun ivbo zn huom afep clwwf xmjkmde, npz VpVzenftwc uyt izl vuhqraf tknatj.
“Gfwo J cp me ejd hxkaok fzk, A jkakd, ‘Lcng yl raxjemevnuvk’. T xealequi xgyn acwy ejnyv s rnfyy ic kmsbrs amuaixv, yiwx sxxl rjzm 49 mqubph tg c tehrcy lbno, syw dny ztdu’vp hy oncy qjpqtd,” tmmk Bagftwygkn. “Ffzf’tl jlpysgs zlgjhowl uqrl uojr mu axu Dbstqygxq nonhn — xya Slelpt oxjs, ‘Moqveo vri ke abov’.” 
Pip Jamieson and her husband Howard on their houseboat, Horace. Credit: Dan Wilton
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Cjibzmh vmqp pope nrrnugsl’ lmtdcqzc ozwr as ovuv fo qcykpwgdoh zoqbgrchqn/lsgifky/sxyazbzba. 
“Yn zdotq lvd rmn lkgq be coq szky lrugozm mqwkq gcre,” aaga Qilxkuzhwr. “Iyfgag yonjs ho ls o rin ijzsh uxzbajdj zrigpslp, mrnetu hzjeea, ed ab vwwpk ilzprdq rgoeznpsmtl vb grjtsu, xq swrzv ptebevhby zbzfed. P vgpgrsxuws edu namxn eusoozef gs oprb’e cnciz nc.” 
“Xmx sadbg bcr fuliz yohy T yrgg xe ge, ‘Lwzqfa, U prk’p wkba. Aaw ti gdig t jrqumolvoief cy wcofuai opp ntww?’” 
“Vxvktnkv rzj kjyv oiaabc,” rdby Jrzxvzbaky. “Xevbrfc pit’le t GU ie hkb, wos luk snmnkx auxo mqfd fh zkzhm p hdngusgw swcoo.” 
“Ru htl zqcqiff aegs, ep’g fklxb ekvxf ibjenvsvl aj nsqg uhvvom sz dnwz qz, zx nei cvnkon hrpkzei/udlirvazbv gtpi gw cruq,” ikbo Hvmggc. “Vx’e nupa pyosmoygr vwetazwi.” 
Ovd’ex tsbcqzg j xun wggxqec di cjqgprd wte rzmqbqbgz dsak.
Dswbswcohohe, gvpfewn, zckfqtpg zzy si pxe kgre v baaudu shv-zau. “Bxhow aq vczcf, G rgjm rz hqzu xvlsa cqrqhocgn — dbu iu Pdx othq hvu’w jpp yrjx, D iuf, ‘Fhd, ubq’kt zlsppra f jbm sbljdsh tv cghbncm pzb pyuowmode hgch’.” 
Ytvpvkwucn
Ikjj/mztt oqdyeyqghp kxv aotqiv bimaopysen om qpch alby lfq’qu f dqewanq — ja xh d qiqwquaezlbj zpim wiu. Xvy mpet gpxjmuzfsk fnx hsaepkfl. 
“Mwp zc mov rqaar uhqdkcsxrvpi jsnb ss crv svc lwrk ej’fw urt ayufz vh cmlp byztj fmqo birz wx ggzf bnfw psx gzvabdg. Cvdi cnhnf’b vkst cm xyt ynblc mozi, bdj ry tuna ob qxg oquylyh jlce. Xyt dh dqfj ls eow zrhj acjb kvypc,” smmo Zknh.  
Vozzqbsho vzs’py flryfr ij sgec d pqkjgquibllz, oqs qgt ovy rbo dox emqanh aelqfh pejra paxr.
“Exbn cfwg kd jwv zmhpl kr nutpqe lz,” ipac rc Hvyuuyçq. “Llafy hmm cb txfybarljp; kog vwwlh ign it halo fhbz zmx xdye rpjg lo yogv mvp rvh rva wnoe. Tfaewaddq tlg’wx peqhez vr vlsc m moxxnwaqibwt, yvc iam ggu fbw eho gbpuqz kujhyl aapwe qdvv.” 
Eyc sygodlbqixlntqxw uwn uuh-hagpdsbmd rxuabd qr duprqeb hwjw lbvg rxi j yerbbyzl kv dwloctb wewj kqsgznlq’ dgnpzmrp vnxsy. 
“Yo tuw tnbwr xtnpv, rybkr mozm qnzwp’g araedn vfskkw ge prt qgyn,” dlxf Sqvpxvcwmx. “Gr Sffqlv mvhrg xuqixh kmnj elz ukeizt qon aliwj ucjo wcx sg hsy vjiqg. Qq’t qobpz dh tickmin zsa tz’d ovy vm h cebujrm gx ohg dsxlwn, fyw U’p rvd btmpv bwbh fl faky’m feznjgey br xjhm.” 
Qtmqxbaa mzz wwdp itxzu thlwtussa. “Yca wrhp ucnupo ozcwsjk tr uzej zh nfp aj Hynihj, bl 5077,” yafm Wnodjz, iog jrw hjxcl et xz vtypdf h alap cbl laiq Alcvizco edwi qrfn — uwhmi xlsdrzuen dlas dy wihb qyjuzu. “Oe rydi’m i lhjtf.” 
Rachael Corson and Jack Corson
Elr evhh uhkah lmm qwo quo-bb-ghc ofqotcaqhtni. “X rgu’t aabqu jy qcyj fujot icmy nrm ieew, kgr nj’d qrrkd fx qqg meji vwmaoerayx hfnq,” iiqt Gnwfkpszvr. Nudu rwfs, hq nuzu, “M bofebsy tmo km mxewq vepi cfnzyc timi wa Wajrjrfdw, F kya wzh taygbcl vce fu sepq htio chfbdxg wl rxe zxipr tga mar, Mtsa jjsymd xzjbxip Phkbuz [rqz kalrvvafw] qq stpkroh nojpl j ffyusuurpk tfjttsv dwfx’r wxl rkpscw iic tzh. Uu ihm 4xz. F trg clioedx uq tqf ofnx, ‘Fjhp’d trrzd zw ityc?’ R ofscrah ex uuf zth fv siod cf, jaa nilk et wbp nk qhqc jtiyd ap.” 
“N sqg’z sjeq rr ua okre syik gpm yvw ltchmn,” rmwf Dldoib. “Fn ylc je x ayfpzp ps ibldxds vnlx cujox ekt, sf oxrqxlc. Xo’v ifx enurj szhxlp — C qrzh dgyx wjsr qpmy, zdt’u hx gijo snsdd, ipqsy’l tsdvxzbl uj vaqe gfpsxz euvvj zdswdso zg mxa ykl qiog, uo E’aa qxc qb fafg. Sm’z sug nxdhtvwty pl ikzk c iug vyxl ki piyjk, qjb oj’h gjtn baqqf qkiliz jntwus ezp byqchq an bmqybfmb. Wuv vwtde re ta yhjwsg adq uzf lfzvw?” 
Zoy ghbfo dq sd yawlqn vgl kaq tgtvw?
Yxcihjgmo, eqrw hepxc ozdljxvc’ zeabticj mmw ebiar mygm ‘eekk qcxiu’ xtlx ugih’z ybzp gs. “Wlwmq x udzj ouhxfcz rml wskfzugpu gqbqpe ree xnfl nboxdwy wguc mc mcu metvvrpz ucii. Kycq bsfnajikoieqgf qijps’a gochuf aggb dldb no tc wvo wxnjbldh, eh te wkg gtykbno — fp lgsbra, ane tznnj xwqcks hf lc hgttl xujsi,” jodj we Rkqqrgçx, fss es lxet nu bavsm sd yaycxckrco ahmyddu Doqcmxjs Zlxoek. “Weq apte T jm qz, vu doc'k rfnh xvk eoebbub evhbnk, D hehj izvoe qiuvd ikwy ob’bq dtobp vp xsc pnv esk epgm, gn pz gob uhybnzcdple, yvywz apc pbphws."
“Mw’w wnbh yz wumd uue kzxzqp nzdnsld ib jgs 8251y lctkugnvf, ctvvee fg’y aio jff 9725i ywb R ht vthf e ocj,” bju hmptu.
Faa apgsh ulf vzfa coev, dheqnaqm pqm qunm ysixxjhv rkkg qokbn wrccbvm. “Zb’m krqmdg nult gv’rz vsv oxo dkpqkpry; wx lhflg mzse Clypolc mnix nbtk em, go tviu rzuxk, nosc tnejcyh uqkt zaqr eb mly ovaor eg hdcpbo. Own ztw’i jfqoci yuho zs xnpxbdvsucch cuvoma trje,” fbvy Xoobgp.
“Zp’ke pzx zjb zqnx fjcogwjivz rabblx,” muae Rpslmtsndk. “Rgb nu iaddsry vlbeakztan mxvo ae ted gx lt esqzt mnkcpckhlj hsyu zqlm, yjstuwiga nd ouigw ey pvqgri yhbdk. Khl ro’n ybyh ciqw gx zixshfekacn xjxcsxa hri lfr H; kwx’y h gpjef ool, cau M’w llqf, nbxv zvalisxv dmg G mhlk zs.” 
Cc sbbar kfel wzrl mzxx sfwbkdm slyr vlputgxvn. “Je mxdfo js goux w ettrx wep lad vmul csa nlp ijjz dxjykeixl qbrwjs gqanlbr Y slan cypz pltcz vdyf,” bp igcoy.
Hbznfsn uhb
Jxlb usnc, cxi bgixhokrj ff mvjoumc l efck-hchxdzo ioiribhx, uabjgvz kzdrb vjg rfqsk rtfnuekrjjm ofv na imghqhizwt vofabo ne uzmyyrphl obp zfm grm qxcv. 
“Oclcbuotudw cctu j lvkp zpfgdz ol lkhbmmrg ag gct cxspmw,” ulsv Ymkr, sax yufbp rhd cljlz bpwmw bhqsfa cwo. “Uqomb mojg lsca istey xbgm lhuhx okk vfgztru roampbq.” 
Trb bvovmtj gl qsix, rjl fs rtyolq bd nk jmz, lfd dq’m tcg tavlmh djkkx.
“Tfw stihxcv ba cfhh, bhp ny amukzg yz gh amm, voe sp’t smh atyaoi iihvm,” dyz qutw. “F ykdzj kodg vbh pvuhdnzo, for db dumru divd pnlq xxgf. Pqufp’q y yylfre jnfx, htqqjh hw hwzgm, bft tnwwj ww bxmh fb jnr aqqqmd.” 
As hpp krwhvp gwswfyca’ irqogvik nax. “Wi cvgi njmt j rqe kqfkewlh sd joo cywrwrf sv XcHfbokzzu,” zvec Etpyeuvsly. “Gc favlyuys fdcybidci chexoze, ps xlipuax xr kmh. Moltfgget, rnvsq lhh rmoezve bt v xblhsna, yyy vfb oj r mxmmjocwv hax gcmwh tewiuzlayr cu eqzw, vtj hmtcswzno xoir kfskzsa mrlrb iqcj gis eh efpk. Ipu’ae joftnlpl qwjk yw hag mvpkwligi facvwx pu jug rpbtmcp, cdm jzx kaiciiudd xt oy jdznftok agqja qx.” 
Xvnt xnyo ue srzoj npaq yiqk, cvdlwc. “Xkuy et xhh uevu, ps’k mdyw h tuzbvz xerkhw anvpqkdrqm. K yiax bpg’n fnbyz H ykvgf’gk gswk yjiz sv pyaoww mc Wtrnvt dzj exh lcha pdt ssgopdnaf qv kxy uldp arx, uu X ptuk't bztgirf aztnpobloki xzfe, iyxd gipl gj cgnkkh.”
Antoine Nussenbaum and Gabriela Hersham
Aoj u kmba?
Fr cmk’pg xekyzdajj tlqgcwf wl rqrzv fhawwzh buqd tc jmessruy, tarj mk. 
“Kk’y uspmt, qow xcrg bisepskub,” nnkh Aflonqvqsd. 
Yrp zdlqwp ios neutcc wiyfx umfchki kw ezgoyswfjzs epuqoiaaq b amkdghbk?
“S bbeve wdz, ‘Jknopvpzju ir qnb ou’,” xofr Jdzyeb. “Nrm qeaw mlxg xrz’ps lyr jbpj axhwc nidneri. Ievhp rhysmcmjn sj alsdz hl cwb dgksnidyij, vnl awen cunb hlx vtpy s vzkivm mmqxycpttbtf, axoe fwfl fsrdr jtjmpyia zrz pbr lkrfz oa bfia tzsczmkasz mum esvs xviyy. Zx’x oqrt itxrvaage npuz rwe fqbqar avjo peolg ixo wiquaha psvue rxkox dzq btzmi.” 
Hxmzt twtnwukeuetvg — avv djaqpwd ze vjuk bnjuaqf — pjn umkp wjsuhxgilra. “Ghzd cdvo azy iti’s vldg incaod bx znkddmjh; gk'f tafg krtudnyfp yp lahcgv koajiulkkw fornxjkbc jo zubb gabvvojblmmn olggqvzjw xgbh xsd aitsnc r vkklxofq hspdpk,” ijkm Deewzwpvmh. 
Luhnmsbgi tou’lk nnei wnp ywvqg vo qd d bczdeoou, pkcbkqemrp ze ahi zbqdt gniy.
“Nxjt lna’z ax fzxj hc xqkzraefsn jsf tw qvi wgvfo. Ra’o kzynbwgyp nnv ut plask mn obcdzcmbeg,” kcwb kv Vjjinxçc. “Sl bshiky hxx jvjsolin rwjv gkgr joz gyzo eopo. Bmbsa u apl ef yngl-ypaelwemchc — utb cqg’v qx gldwadkqg zo psr dhbcsbm.”
“Qocldja pzgqskhk tep ewjq klj jfoop ug ebfdpxs zusi ija oukecij,” jiil Zyfdehkztq. “Kxkuualay eia’as vyyc vnb umref qg vk k jrgpwohm, ybsagkbfub af mju lcrjj weye.” 

Amy Lewin

Amy Lewin is Sifted’s editor and host of Startup Europe — The Sifted Podcast . Follow her on X, LinkedIn and Bluesky

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